Sunday, February 09, 1997 2:24 AM harry026@aol.com Norm Michaud reports getting quads five times within about 25 minutes and wonders about the probability of that happening. Here is an estimate, based on the following assumptions: 1) The flop will be seen if and only if the hand is a pair or two high cards (T, J, Q, K, or A). This assumption approximates reasonable play. 2) After the flop, the hand will be played to the river so long as there is any chance of obtaining quads. (Not necessarily reasonable play, since the turn would be seen holding 22 with the board showing AKQ. Hope everyone checked.) 4) At least one other player stays, allowing you to reach the river. 3) 12 hands will be played in the 25-minute period. Using a Markov chain, these assumptions lead to a probability of a designated player holding quads by the river in any one hand of (approximately) 0.0006474603. The different hands are identical and independent trials in a binomial probability distribution. A "success" will be getting quads, and we are interested in at least 5 successes among the 12 trials. Letting p=0.0006474603, then q=0.9993525397, and summing the expressions (12pickN)*p^N*q^(12-N) where N goes from 5 through 12 gives (approximately) 0.000,000,000,000,090 (90 quadrillionths) as the probability of getting at least 5 quads among the 12 hands. So Norm was quite lucky and should demand very good odds if he wishes to bet that he can do it again. However, if the odds are sufficiently attractive, then he can look upon it as a "jackpot" hand, and play any two cards he is dealt. That would increase his starting probability of getting quads in an individual hand to 0.0016806723 (more than twice reasonable-play chances). Then the probability of getting at least 5 quads becomes 0.000,000,000,010,517; it would happen to Norm on the average of about once every 100 billion 12-hand groups that he plays. As a by-product of the Markov chain are the probabilities of getting quads at various stages of the hand: prob quads by river at this point in the hand 0.00064746 before the deal 0.00842380 pre-flop: pair 0.00125923 pre-flop: two high cards (TJQKA) 0.00092507 post-flop: pair 0.00185014 post-flop: two pair 0.04255319 post-flop: set 0.04347826 post-flop: boat 1.00000000 post-flop: quads 0.02173913 post-turn: set 0.04347826 post-turn: two sets 0.02173913 post-turn: boat 1.00000000 post-turn: quads If *any* two cards are played, then "high cards" can be replaced with "any cards" and the only number in the above table that would change is at the top of the column: 0.00168067. Harry